So many posts here, it took me somewhile to read them. @.@

Hm... underappreciated... well, I join UA the first place cause I wanna know just at which level my standard is at, and in the meantime improving... I wouldnt deny that I really kinda take faves and pageviews seriously.. but not anymore. Just when I'm kinda used to low fave and low pageviews I just got used to it.

By the way, ignoring trendwhores and vectors... how about trying on a genre which tends to go extinct? Like.. abstract and grunge? I've been wanting tolearn them properly, never get the chance.

Something which is not trendwhore eh... hmm... have anyone considered mix all types of genre into one piece of artwork? Never tried that before... sounds fun, don't you guys think? ^^

Quote by kuroimisaI think the problem is that we accept people who ARE underappreciated, not because they FEEL underappreciated. These are two things- and some people thinking "I'm underappreciated" feel smaller than they are....? Lol it doesn't make sense to me! If you're underappreciated that means that you have a lot more potential and are a lot better than what people see you as... right? And that's meant to be a GOOD thing. Having overappreciation to me is something that's a bad thing, because you'll never really improve (that is if you get lots of "WONDERFUL +FAVE")- unless most of the overappreciation was critical (highly doubt it).

I don't have much time, but I wanted to write something about this. When I thought of joining UA... I really wondered whether I would actually be accepted in the group or if I even have the right to apply? Why? Because I saw how much better the wallpapers of other people were. So I wondered do I have the right to call myself "underappreciated"... *lol* And when I got accepted I felt honored! And thought "wow"... So yes I also think it is a good thing to be underappreciated...

what's all this text? EWWWW..

someone summarize it in 2 sentences or less. I'm too lazy..

here's what I wanna say:
I've been a member of MT for quite a while now. And my walling career longer than that. I just joined UA because I realized I wasn't getting the appreciation I felt was needed. (Back then MT was ravaged by friendwhores) Many of my walls didn't get much exposure. This in turn started to discourage me from making walls in general, hence my long waller blocks. Still to this day I feel that i'm very much "underappreciated"(my last wall didn't recieve much attention even though it was.)
<./emo>

btw, ZOMFG KOZU IS DOING A NEW WALL!111 za world iss gone

@Regenbogen

Well, if we can't get other members to post, what active ones we have now is a good thing. And I'd be happy that even if we had a few active members, we'd keep them here rather than see them waffle away and melt into the darkness Hopefully after a few rounds of these active guestbook waves, the guilt will kick in and they'll post something :P

As for the genres I suggested, they were just off the top of my head I'm not saying that vectors are to be completely vanished- some people can only do vectors and that's fine- it's really what you do with the vectors that makes it trendwhore or not. I have to use vectors for my background design to blend everything in, and that can't be helped. Another thing about vectors is that you feel like you're doing something on the wallpaper- if you took a stock and just manipulated it, it seems like "hmmm am I doing enough?" lol.

Maybe we can perhaps find another say 'use' of these vectors?
As for the Renaissance part, we could try doing painted wallpapers (I don't actually know how they are made but I presume they are done by smudging).

Overall, I'm just as confused. Maybe we should just leave this later and see what happens @_@

@k1ru
Yes, line art is a bit like my born from the water wallpaper. It has popped up with a recently highlighted wall.
I don't know if I should be like "yay someone's doing something following my footsteps" or "well this person happened to do something I did first". Well obviously I wasn't the first person to have done it... but I don't think Minitokyo would want a whole heap of just line art works :P Maybe if you used it more interesting as a background (like one of those architectural plan like drawings) then that'd be quite interesting.

*pokes Rah* hehehe

We'll just ignore the highlights for now, because well, there's not much we can do about them. If 6 UAers have made it to the highlights before, I'm sure there'll be more in the future and the number should grow. But who knows what'll happen? We'll just wait and see... not have too many high hopes, and just go with the flow

merged: 05-08-2006 ~ 08:39am
oh one last point, about being underappreciated~~

it is a shocking idea and I never thought of it like that either. There are some active members here who felt shy because of that when they first joined But after knowing that everyone was in a similar situation and had a somewhat similar feeling, the group kicked off.
We still want the group to appeal to people, and some just applied for the competitions o_O We've had these pro wallers applying because of either- 1. rallying against top faves 2. competitions 3. no idea why, because they never posted or 4. they felt they were underappreciated.
I think the problem is that we accept people who ARE underappreciated, not because they FEEL underappreciated. These are two things- and some people thinking "I'm underappreciated" feel smaller than they are....? Lol it doesn't make sense to me! If you're underappreciated that means that you have a lot more potential and are a lot better than what people see you as... right? And that's meant to be a GOOD thing. Having overappreciation to me is something that's a bad thing, because you'll never really improve (that is if you get lots of "WONDERFUL +FAVE")- unless most of the overappreciation was critical (highly doubt it).
Lots of people joined UA because they were like <3 with the UA collab and believed we were here for a good cause.
I think since Mt3 probably about 10 people or so have applied (possibly more). It's mostly through competitions and userpage advertisements... and mostly the collab. TREC stole some attention too. Arete could have, but we were individuals more than as "groups", and now I'm looking forward to the NWP Olympiad, actually.
Maybe if there is another W.A.R we might steal some attention, lol. But who knows if there'll be another one.
We're one of the groups with a slow membership rate probably also because of selection criteria and our lack of invitations to individuals.
I'm sure the group is very tempting to join (you know you want to join UA ), but it's either people feel they can't pass criteria or something like that. Who knows- but things will improve. As always

wow, it seem that i have a lot of reading to do.
well folks, i'm just dropping buy to announce that i'm not officially dead as of yet, and there is no reason to envoke a massive wave of chaos. ^^
who am i kidding right?
any who, I hope you've all been behaving and listening to your wise elders, i know i have.
there they are now, so i better be on my way. i hope you can get a good nights rest knowing im okay.
take care, and be good. :]
-Rah

merged: 05-07-2006 ~ 11:14pm
my comment looks so insignificant compared to the rest of the posts.
objective complete. woo! ^^

Quote by kuroimisa Suggestions? Grunge? Oil painting? (actually I have yet to learn that...) Renaissance art? Art Nouveau? Grafitti/ street art? Lineart? Stick figures?
Scenics? Abstract? Psychedelic? (hey I like the sound of that *cough*) or even bright saturated trendwhores if you want, if you are reminiscent of those once popular saturated looking things. You name it, you agree on it, we'll work on it.

Well, so much ideas!
grafitti looks like a unique idea, I always want to do it, but... never know where should I started...

Line art? what kind of art is this? is it like 'born in the water' by you, misa-san?

Renaissance art? Art Nouveau? haha~ i'm such an idiot, dont know these kind of art... ;;
anybody want to tell me?

Quote by kuroimisa From another point of view, don't think whether or not these discussions are useful or not- they may or may not be- and that's fine But I'm sure that this discussion was actually quite successful in the respect that while we haven't learnt anything from it, look at the number of posts we received since I brought up the topic.

yup yup... this is not quite, but absolutely successfull...
look at your monster post! weeheee~

@kuroimisa
Thanks for writing down the history of the Underappreciated. I wish I would have known MT a little earlier. It does feel a little as if it all was better in the past.

Quote by kuroimisa
From another point of view, don't think whether or not these discussions are useful or not- they may or may not be- and that's fine But I'm sure that this discussion was actually quite successful in the respect that while we haven't learnt anything from it, look at the number of posts we received since I brought up the topic.

Yes, that's true... but still if you look who is joining the discussion, it's always the same names. And some comments ago you wrote that people don't want to be called "underappreciated" and therefore don't want to join. I just remembered it now... That's actually shocking! I never felt like that when I was thinking of joining or not! But we still want to increase the number of members, right? How can we win the attention back? I got the feeling that with WAR the Underappreciated got more interest, whereas now... how many peoply at MT actually know that this group is existing? The groups here seem a bit chaotic to me. And I never look around how many groups there are... but maybe other people do that. However if more are like me... then the majority won't know UA at all.

Quote by kuroimisa UA, I think, shouldn't be just limited to underappreciation of gallery item submissions. I think it should branch out to underappreciation of ideas and voices. We are more art based of course, and we are categorised as art- and that's why we rarely talk about posts or forums or anything of the like- but I think it's still an essential thing- to have member activity, and whilst it may not benefit us (it will when we reach a conclusion), it can at least raise some interesting issues and other people who come by can also read and perhaps find some value in how we think or feel.

Yes, I totally agree with you!

Quote by kuroimisaI hope now that we can safely come to a conclusion that even with weird venting "I OBJEcT!" discussions like these, we actually DID realise that we needed something else other than vectors as a focus- and it was just in March this year that we said we'd focus on vectors. So things change.

Suggestions? Grunge? Oil painting? (actually I have yet to learn that...) Renaissance art? Art Nouveau? Grafitti/ street art? Lineart? Stick figures?
Scenics? Abstract? Psychedelic? (hey I like the sound of that *cough*) or even bright saturated trendwhores if you want, if you are reminiscent of those once popular saturated looking things. You name it, you agree on it, we'll work on it.

Hmm..yes yes I like this... let us suggest... but it is so very difficult! However I was just looking at the highlights and it was only now that I saw the "highlight" Evo was talking about! I really don't want to bring up the discussion again but I don't understand it at all... I think I finally lost all my great respect of the highlights. I still always felt to have one of my wallpapers once in the highlights would be "wow"... but now? There is actually nothing in the highlights that in my point of view is so great that it should be highlighted.
So even more I hope we can find a new way here in the UA group.

However... if I understand everything correctly when you want to work with scans you can either extract or vector them, right? I will still stick to the vectors for the reasons that I have already explained. Yet I was already wondering with my trendwhore wallpaper how vectors are actually not sufficient. The shadows always look so "hard"... I would like to find a new technique vectoring combined with ?, if only I knew.
Grunge? I read that so often already... and wasn't that a bit like a trend too? And Renaissance art? Hmm... I really can't see how this epoche of art can be combined with MT, computer arts... Especially here it all still is that Anime genre or let's say mostly Japanese artists... combine these with Renaissance? Hmmm? *confused* Renaissance then I think of huge paintings and Michelangelo, Raffael, etc...
All these are genres that you can find in history of art... Or graffiti etc. may even exist in some wallpapers already. But if you want to make a graffiti wallpaper... you still have to vector, right? I don't see how these suggestions lead us to something new... because you were just saying that vectors are no longer what we want to focus on.
That is what I don't understand... vectors are just a ... Misa called it... Medium... how can you avoid them when you use Photoshop or Illustrator? With extraction? I don't understand that at all! Help, help, help... please!

PS: I hope my English is understandable... sorry about all these "..." I cannot stop making them... *lol*

@Regenbogen

These discussions aren't really going to help UA a whole lot and I know that, but getting people's opinions can make a difference. It might not make a difference within ourselves, but there are a lot of visitors to this page who value what we think or perceive.

Quote by RegenbogenWhereas in such a discussion I only learn: quality is low... Minitokyo's quality became less than it was once. And now?

Well that's where the discussion is supposed to lead. To suggestions. So far nobody has suggested anything, but thats fine. It doesn't mean that I don't stop thinking though I'm always thinking about UA even in real life.
I asked the question on what else we should concentrate apart from vectors- the vector tutorial is up there for anyone to use so that should be fine. But what kind of genre now is not trendwhore?

Quote by RegenbogenHmm... and here in the UA group what are we actually seeking with our wallpapers? Simple-ism members want simple but yet stylish, original wallpapers... and UA? Original, non trendwhore... hmm... that is all I know right now... but how can we do this? No idea... and I am not sure whether discussing it will lead to anything. Maybe trying and making walls is the only way. But still I think it is more helpful and motivating to discuss "Where do we want to go?" instead of "Where don't we want to go" or "Why is the quality so low"...

As for the purpose of UA, we are pretty mixed and moved away from our original purpose. I mentioned some time ago that this group was formed because we were displeased with the popular submissions and we tried to break through that popular submissions and see our work up there. There were challenges though, such as we wanted to have our work be popular for what it is, not for who we are- so we limited friends at the beginning, because we are against friendwhoring. The first generation of friendwhorers had about 150 friends on their lists, and now today? There are some with over 300 watchers. UA didn't really care at first if we submitted trendwhores or not- we wanted to see if we could get up there because of quality. So we tried to improve. We didn't want to get popular submissions dues to friends faving away. We were a group of relatively unknown artists believing that we could get more recognition.

Sp we started the competitions, partly to draw more members, and partly to help us improve. And by exploring different genres and themes, we started to become less oriented towards trendwhores.

The group then evolved when W.A.R occurred. When we won the collab, we were seen as a hardworking group with a different perspective of things. Not to mention the wallpaper was Mt based, so I guess it kind of happened that when we won, we got more attention, and hence we also became a "pro-Mt" activity trying to fix other aspects too.

From another point of view, don't think whether or not these discussions are useful or not- they may or may not be- and that's fine But I'm sure that this discussion was actually quite successful in the respect that while we haven't learnt anything from it, look at the number of posts we received since I brought up the topic.

One of our concerns was about the deadness of the group. Not only in terms of submitting gallery items, but also posting in the guestbook in general. These topics are just for ideas- they could be about learning, but nobody has brought up anything educational wise to discuss about lol~~ the group activity at least is bumped up, and that's a good sign. And as I mentioned, there are many people who visit this page who value our thoughts. When Keltosh was still around (damn I miss him at times ) he actually asked me about what UA would think about Mt3- how we accepted Mt3 when it first was implemented, whether or not we liked the highlights system. We are called UA, but at times I'm very happy that our ideas are valued. And that's probably why I bring up issues not about just art, but more general things. There might even be a discussion on forum topics nowadays! Lol... UA, I think, shouldn't be just limited to underappreciation of gallery item submissions. I think it should branch out to underappreciation of ideas and voices. We are more art based of course, and we are categorised as art- and that's why we rarely talk about posts or forums or anything of the like- but I think it's still an essential thing- to have member activity, and whilst it may not benefit us (it will when we reach a conclusion), it can at least raise some interesting issues and other people who come by can also read and perhaps find some value in how we think or feel.

Some other things I wanted to say that might help fill in some gaps (my post is very fragmented, sorry about that):

* the only reason why we don't like trendwhores is because they generally don't demonstrate much skill, and trendwhores have the largest watchlists and friendlists etc.
If it was a really good trendwhore wallpaper - an EXCELLENT trendwhore artist - BUT didn't get the appreciation a friendwhorer did, they would still be a UA member, because they fit under the description of underappreciated.
Any genre is generally fine. It's just that we prefer not everyone go in the same previously walked on path, because it usually leads to friendwhoredom. It might be or might not be true- or might not happen, but it's something we hope for... but not demand.

*

Quote by RegenbogenBut still I think it is more helpful and motivating to discuss "Where do we want to go?" instead of "Where don't we want to go" or "Why is the quality so low"...

Of course that's more helpful! But I think everyone was venting out more than thinking about other things (and yes UA was actually made for venting ) Nobody has suggested or brought anything up about it- and now that you have, we can now ask for suggestions, non?
It's always natural for people to go and talk about things they immediately feel something for. The tactic probably didn't succeed in gallery submissions, but the number of posts is enough to impress me and say that the work has been done .

I hope now that we can safely come to a conclusion that even with weird venting "I OBJEcT!" discussions like these, we actually DID realise that we needed something else other than vectors as a focus- and it was just in March this year that we said we'd focus on vectors. So things change.

Suggestions? Grunge? Oil painting? (actually I have yet to learn that...) Renaissance art? Art Nouveau? Grafitti/ street art? Lineart? Stick figures?
Scenics? Abstract? Psychedelic? (hey I like the sound of that *cough*) or even bright saturated trendwhores if you want, if you are reminiscent of those once popular saturated looking things. You name it, you agree on it, we'll work on it.

Suggest, please people

Some loose ends to tie:

@k1ru
semper sint in flore - latin for "may (they) flourish forever"

@julian1
there are still many poor quality works at deviantART and rippers even without a level or credit system. People just want more page views. The credits system and levels system both had their bad and good... I guess I can't tell the difference between the two anymore... they both had their flaws and couldn't solve some problems ^^;

I'm out of here.

Make suggestions now. Please vent if you still want to~~ I'm happy to see all these posts. Mission complete ^^

@kuroimisa...

*lol* Hmm... maybe it's motivating others to submit more and better items. I just wrote down my personal opinion... and all these discussions are not going to help me. I always tend to "over-think" everything. My wallpapers were something where I didn't really think about them being original, oldfashioned etc. I just started and finished them because I felt like it. And I actually can't do more than what I do now... when I make a wall it will usually take some time because I can only work on it during the evening.
But yes, maybe it is just me who won't feel motivated with this tactic...

If I imagine my teachers though coming into class... and sometimes they were just complaining that our exams were so bad etc. that also felt quite frustrating to me. ^_^ But why such comments frustrate me is also because I am always trying my best. My current walls are the best that I can do. *lol* Well I am working on it... but at the moment "more" is not possible! *sigh*

That is why I think that we need to have this discussion in another way. If we want to find some sort of quality, originality, new techniques even since vectoring is "trendwhore" now... then why don't we think of that? That would help me more! Don't know about the others though... I can only speak for myself.
And discussions of how to do certain things... You know I am asking you quite often about how to do this or that... You helped me so much with your answers... always.

Whereas in such a discussion I only learn: quality is low... Minitokyo's quality became less than it was once. And now?

Hmm... and here in the UA group what are we actually seeking with our wallpapers? Simple-ism members want simple but yet stylish, original wallpapers... and UA? Original, non trendwhore... hmm... that is all I know right now... but how can we do this? No idea... and I am not sure whether discussing it will lead to anything. Maybe trying and making walls is the only way. But still I think it is more helpful and motivating to discuss "Where do we want to go?" instead of "Where don't we want to go" or "Why is the quality so low"...
So that would be my wish as a humble member of UA... Again I hope no one felt insulted or bad after my comments... that is not my intention. I am too direct sometimes. Sorry again...

Ok... it's time for university again, my whole Saturday!.... and I am still so tired.

oh, long time no see.

in my opinion, this whole mess started with the credit system. if it weren't for the credit system, no one would spam the forums, makes low quality submissions, and of course, the mods won't have to work a lot giving warnings and banning members. since credits are like money, and money is the root of all evil, it's not strange to see these low quality artwork that takes a lot less work being submitted up here. why can't MT be lke deviant art?

*can't be bothered quoting *

@Regenbogen

Sure, our complaining isn't going to do anything
My main point about bringing up the complaints was to actually get UA members to submit And boost up the submission levels! Why? Because I sincerely believe that our UAers can submit something and turn the gallery upside down. It was kind of a tactic... that never hit anyone

So yes part of the tactic was to get people to actually realise the quality, and realise that they could do something.

Sorry guys, I'm just a person who wanted to bump up the UA submission rate

So don't worry about it Regenbogen nobody will bite you... it was my own fault for trying to manipulate you all Mwahah

I;m going to cut this post short- but hopefully I haven't exactly annoyed anyone by trying some reverse tactics

About the mod/elite in the pocket- sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. But it is true that when you get promoted you need someone to recommend you.
About proposals... well, there are many that have been proposed and they were just by browsing the gallery. I don't really know anymore :S

So it is true-- but not all the time (if that makes any sense)

^^/

Yup, I think so, nowdays gallery item looks like easily enter the elite gallery.

I think elite gallery didnt really good. Makes the gallery looks worse, because of the low quality submission still on the gallery...

Quote by Regenbogen What Evo said about a "mod/elite member in your back pocket"... that is most certainly true... but look around you. Our whole society is shaped like that. Most often people won't get a certain job because they are the best in it but because they have someone in that company support them. At least here in Austria it is a lot like this... and it is very frustrating at times. That's why there are thousands of books telling you about self Public Relations... All this seems really shallow... but it's reality... Well making that many and the right contacts also takes a lot of time and some sort of talent. What I want to say... it's nowhere like this... that only your personal talent counts. Whoever thinks that I can only recommend: Wake up... this is reality. I don't blame mods/elite members for supporting some of the people they have on their watch list already even less... because like you and me they also have another life apart from browsing the tons of submissions every day.

This is absolutely true. Many people become mod or admin not because they have the qualification, but they have much friends supporting them..

Well, you guys such a post monster....
takes an hour for me to read all posts here...

btw, anyone knows the meaning of 'semper sint in flore'?

Quote by kuroimisaSInce our 2006 task was actually to "learn vectors" or explore them more carefully since they are popular, I'm assuming we're going to scrap that and focus on a completely different kind of genre. A year ago vectors were original. Now they are still seen as original- I see them as trendwhore now.

Hmm... yes, I guess that's true... vectors are not original anymore... but still they are only a method... anyways you've added that to your comment already. Trendwhore to me is something that just always shows the same: sparkles, wings, moon that sort of stuff. By using vectors I most certainly can also create these sort of wallpapers. But vectors also offer me more freedom something that scans in my opinion don't do in a sufficient way.
I actually feel bored of using a scan... yeah sure I can extract it, improve the quality etc... still... I don't see too many ways in that to really make my own interpretation in that way... so I am choosing vectors.
Yet right now that I am working on that trendwhore thing I am really annoyed. Why? Because I again feel really limited. And I would love to simply return to my doujinshis instead of spending hours on something another person originally drew. That is what gets me frustrated really often... and that is also why I prefer vectors... because I can sense a little more freedom in them. And I personally would never call them trendwhore-ish... But maybe that just shows that I lack too many skills of what else I can do to feel this "freedom of my own interpretation"...

I also think that almost everything gets into the elite gallery now. So the sense of the whole elite thing... more and more to query.

What Evo said about a "mod/elite member in your back pocket"... that is most certainly true... but look around you. Our whole society is shaped like that. Most often people won't get a certain job because they are the best in it but because they have someone in that company support them. At least here in Austria it is a lot like this... and it is very frustrating at times. That's why there are thousands of books telling you about self Public Relations... All this seems really shallow... but it's reality... Well making that many and the right contacts also takes a lot of time and some sort of talent. What I want to say... it's nowhere like this... that only your personal talent counts. Whoever thinks that I can only recommend: Wake up... this is reality. I don't blame mods/elite members for supporting some of the people they have on their watch list already even less... because like you and me they also have another life apart from browsing the tons of submissions every day.

Hmm and then... what I wanted to say... I think all this complaining and discussing about how the quality is going down... It will be good... for what? If you think quality is low... then do something about it, show that you can be better. Then create something new, original, awesome... and even if the mods will not highlight it because they have tomatoes on their eyes of whatever... we can have our own gallery here, as UA members.
All this complaining about quality going down in my point of view just has one result: frustration, less motivation... and in the end you join the wave of unoriginal submissions that you were complaining about. And it's also too much pressure, spoiling fun... Yes, I would like to have original, impressing wallpapers.... and I am trying my best to do so... that's all I can personally do. Still to have fun with making wallpapers is important too. And putting too much "philosophy" into this, thinking about my wall being "trendwhore", not original enough... that would start to ruin my whole pleasure in this.
This is not my job or something... I chose it as my free time activity so to receive some relaxing moments after a hard exhausting university day is one of my goals as well. And I think this is why I will officially quit this discussion now after this comment.
It's so much energy... if you want to discuss something... then discuss something that will lead into motivation, production, activity. Like what would be original for you?
As for me... I will continue making wallpapers that personally look good to myself, that I feel good with, that I have fun making... without wondering about it being original or not, about it being boring or not, about it being too much pastel or too much vector etc. I really want to trust my heart and my feeling only... too many questions and thoughts... no way... that's not what it is about, not what is going to create original submissions...

I hope no one feels upset now with my comment. I really enjoy my time here with you UA members. I wouldn't want to be in any other group... but this discussion will lead us... nowhere...
Maybe I am also too tired... had a long day... and stress in my private life too... so sorry, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings!

See you soon... ^_^

And I forgot to say... what I was also thinking is... that maybe I am too new to this whole thing to really have this discussion... I am still new to Photoshop, to Illustrator and to Minitokyo... So I don't see these developments that clearly yet and I think less of them, I'm not even here yet for a year... ^-^

Another thing... Tishdon wrote something about AP. Yes, I saw a wallpaper there that I liked, not Ranma though. Still I like AP A LOT less. First of all the rating system. Feels like school... and I hate getting "D"s all the time! Very frustrating though I do not care about it that much but having it written black on white "D"... eeeek... quite annoying! And top submissions there are most times either trendwhore, either the submission that is highlighted at the moment or by someone who is more "famous" already. Don't think there are better wallpapers there... There are simply less wallpapers in general that's why you can find "good" ones more easily. I still prefer the freedom of Minitokyo. I don't like sending my wallpapers to the admins aka "gods" who decide whether it is good enough for them or not! I did that again last time... in hope to receive some more helpful feedback... but at AP I get even more frustrating crap feedback than here... so I am thinking of only submitting to MT in the future.

And another thing I don't think every submission has to be perfect, not even "above average". When I started with Photoshop the gods of AP rejected one of my wallpapers. Fine, I even understand it now... but it was still not that bad... and I did like they said and I put my submission into the forum and NO ONE answered to help me. Then I found Minitokyo... and there I even got really helpful comments. Maybe I was lucky to find some really friendly people at the very beginning. But that's also why I appreciate the whole system here. I think it's a wonderful way to learn... I learned a lot during the time that I am here! So I think other people that are still at the very beginning with Photoshop/Illustrator should get the same chance which is a bit hard with a system like AP. So there we are at MT... which has lots of submissions that are not that good. Is that really such a problem?

I agree with you, misa. almost most of the submission recently are crap. including mine. i see some crappy stuffs gets into elite gallery, now that's a new thing. if i'm not mistaken, i'm guessing that things submitted these few days get to enter elite gallery very easily... don't you guys think so? (Well, exception for my doujin, they are pure crap, lols)

100% agreed. I think the qualities are getting lower each day, coming here isn't something that I wanna do anymore, just like last time. Last time I used to enjoy fresh new and high quality stuffs from people in MT. Thing's aren't so exciting like it used to be... i'm not sure why people keep sending stuffs which belong to the 'eye-sore' category (sorry for being so offensive... ppl plz dont kill me). If it's such a pain for us to even see no one comment on it that's different, but the prob is that ppl commenting they're pretty and stuff, even faving it, what's wrong!?!? Is the friendwhoring stuff is still going on? and yet they don't get to be deleted, man... that feel sucks... i don't understand what people are thinking... i'm not sure why did they even join MT at the first place. sometimes i see people submit something almost everyday, i didnt know mt has a job like that.

There's no way you can fix the problem, unless you want people to hate you, we can have a group of ppl go and cursing them or something, so to smack them out of their "so-called hobby" like walling.

Hahhha, trendwhores now really are... lower in quality. Now... let me see what's the pattern like nowadays... yeah, wings.. that girl from AIR... but i really have to agree with regen that sometimes they do too much trendwhores they're improving quite good in certain aspect... only that label of being a trendwhore wall is just there.

But vector... not sure... if it's still considered as trendy now... lols... but we sure get lots of vector these days. but i'm still happy the fact that vector don't go as wild as trendwhore since we need certain skill to vector.

Well, a selected item gallery thingy... not sure if i can find one... i'll drop in a link once i found out something. ^^

p.s: i'm sorry, might sound mildly aggresive. nothing is making any senses in my life now.

whew! soo much comments on misa-san's posts!
my eyes goin around~

I am agree about the highlight things that Evo said. When I see the frontpage, where the highlighted item showed, I found that most of them are vectored wall. Yup, misa-san, vector wall become trend now...

Quote: In a similar respect to 'feeling cheated of a highlight' I feel cheated with my comments. I usually dont' really give a damn about favourites and hope for some good feedback. As I already mentioned, I get the weirdest comments "nice pic" "great" "nice" or "I dun like ur pale colourz lookz dead" (I did get something along these lines- if you don't want to go blind, turn down the monitor to 30%, dopehead. That's the percentage I work on, and that's the percentage I work for- nobody else's monitor but my very own. And the colours weren't dull or dead. They were desaturated but then bumped up with brushes.) or even in extreme cases "I like the wallpaper but Idon't like your chara" (well that's just great. I designed a wallpaper for this chara and you don't like it then don't say you like the wallpaper- the chara and the background essentially make up the one whole!).

Yup. some *ehm, not some, many of MT's member* do that. And that annoys me a lot.
Waste my time with checking those kind of "comments".

What you said absolutely right, how can people like the wallpaper but he/she doesnt like the chara? that just weird.

Quote: The other thing I nominated was actually a doujinshi in the Jpop Seiyuu Idols category by KittyCyn. It was a real life sketch, had really nice shading and had a great deal of realism- not to mention that it was a quality work of art submitted into a more than often overlooked category. This didn't get highlighted, and when I went back to check on it, someone actually removed my proposal for whatever reason.

I have see that doujin... as you said, the doujin looks real, the shading and all things there looks really great! And that makes me wonder, why this doujin didnt get highlighted?
-_-;;

but as you said, nothing we can do to change/solve this problem.
the quality getting high and low at the same time.

Quote: Just as a clarification: Not all vectors are trendwhore- there are exceptional wallpapers using vectors, but it's a medium which, well, can do so much better I guess. It's a medium- not really a style, and people can choose their preferred medium.

In other words, works using vectors as a medium do no wrong.
Works using vectors as a "style" do no justice.

yea yea again... *I think i'm just agree with all your words...*
vector is a style, which become a trendwhore nowdays...

no way to change it.

btw, ask 1 qs before gets a headache : what is the mean of 'semper sint in flore'? =P

I want to reply something, but forgot what is teh exact statement...
maybe i'll do it later...

Well Evo, it certainly is true, what you are talking about- the highlights section. Everyone would probably work in a slightly different way. I've only ever nominated two things: one was DREAM's absolutely crazy vector of a tool CD (which unfortunately didn't get as many favourites or comments as I probably hoped it would get). I nominated that because of all the hard work, slightly less popular style of vectoring (I don't know how he does it, but it looks slightly oily like oil painting), and modified the colours to reflect a feeling (I feel this is important because vectoring isn't merely tracing. Most people trace, but the bigger skill is vectoring and making your own modifications to it). And that was successfully highlighted.
The other thing I nominated was actually a doujinshi in the Jpop Seiyuu Idols category by KittyCyn. It was a real life sketch, had really nice shading and had a great deal of realism- not to mention that it was a quality work of art submitted into a more than often overlooked category. This didn't get highlighted, and when I went back to check on it, someone actually removed my proposal for whatever reason. It may have been the huge signature/ watermark thingy over it, but I don't think that something like that should stop a quality work of art from being displayed on the front page- even just for a day.

I don't know the basis on what other people judge by to propose or to highlight- but I only propose sparingly. And sometimes it doesn't work. I haven't proposed anything lately because well, partially because I'm not smiling with a removed proposal, and because lately there hasn't been anything "out there" I guess.

In a way I do kind of feel stupid for working so hard on some gallery items o_O I don't regret working hard on the UA collab though (because everyone did it together- and we were the ONLY group which had all participating members intact...)- possibly for other gallery items I made. It's like spend a week or two woosch out the window. Then again I'm losing my style now. I'm going to have to move away from any kind of simple-ism stuff right now, because it's just not me. My desktop is empty and that's how I generated the super busy looking wallpaper. It's about time I returned to that.

Pastels ! *hides*
I'm all for desaturated colours (who on earth would want a post it yellow on screen?!) but lots of white = eurgh. I have these kind of items in my gallery, but they wouldn't be standing in there. Most of the sparkly crap in my gallery stays because it's either I think it should have done better (c'mon where are all the sparkly lovers?!) and secondly because I'm annoyed with some wallpapers which got more recognition than mine (I hate my own wallpaper, but I think it's still better than the top one). It's a constant battle...

In a similar respect to 'feeling cheated of a highlight' I feel cheated with my comments. I usually dont' really give a damn about favourites and hope for some good feedback. As I already mentioned, I get the weirdest comments "nice pic" "great" "nice" or "I dun like ur pale colourz lookz dead" (I did get something along these lines- if you don't want to go blind, turn down the monitor to 30%, dopehead. That's the percentage I work on, and that's the percentage I work for- nobody else's monitor but my very own. And the colours weren't dull or dead. They were desaturated but then bumped up with brushes.) or even in extreme cases "I like the wallpaper but Idon't like your chara" (well that's just great. I designed a wallpaper for this chara and you don't like it then don't say you like the wallpaper- the chara and the background essentially make up the one whole!).

As for the solution, Evo, about artistic taste- there is no real way. Sure, mods and elites can have guidelines and discussions- but I think sometimes when every submission is like a pastel, you've gotta highlight the best pastel one, because there isn't anything else better. It really depends on what is being submitted.
The MAIN basis of proposing a highlight is actually faving the work itself. If you fave it (hence it's pretty good), it should be good enough for a proposal. Lately there are maybe some cases where this hasn't happened (not lately but more like recently... past month or month before perhaps... I have my time warped). So I'm confused.

It's all good. We're here to vent it out here, and that's what the topic of the week is supposed to do. Express views, and if nobody's going to do anything about it, then UA can.

SInce our 2006 task was actually to "learn vectors" or explore them more carefully since they are popular, I'm assuming we're going to scrap that and focus on a completely different kind of genre. A year ago vectors were original. Now they are still seen as original- I see them as trendwhore now.

Usually the better artists used vectors... and did something well, relatively good with them. And now any old boring noob waller trendwhorer would come along and say:

"dis is my first vector plz comment and fave ty"

and there are commments like:

"WOW TWIDDLEDEE! That's great! How did you do that? Nice! So original! I like it how you did that! How come it looks like the scan but doesn't at the same time? Nice! +fav from me!"

(to tell the truth, if you're faving the damn thing, I wonder why people write +fav at the end. I've gotten many comments saying that and I didn't get a fave. It's not that I care, but it makes them look rather dodge hehehe)

So what genre shall we aim for?
We'll think about it... not vector... argh... moving away from that... argh... (it's okay for creating backgrounds or improving scans... but when it's just vector it gets... I dunno )

But yes. We can make a difference.

I've invited a few people to UA before, and this is what happened once: someone told me they didn't want to be called underappreciated. More like they didn't want to make a difference. After that I didn't invite anyone else. Because we don't need people to feel like volunteers by joining.

Actually I feel kinda annoyed by this as well. Any old group gets more members than UA... BLEH. u__u

Indeed. Quality is going up and down in some ways... but there's no way to fix it

Viva UA! Nevertheless, semper sint in flore is OUR motto.
Nobody else can take it away. Ever.

merged: 05-05-2006 ~ 06:19pm
Just as a clarification: Not all vectors are trendwhore- there are exceptional wallpapers using vectors, but it's a medium which, well, can do so much better I guess. It's a medium- not really a style, and people can choose their preferred medium.

In other words, works using vectors as a medium do no wrong.
Works using vectors as a "style" do no justice.

merged: 05-05-2006 ~ 06:39pm
Oh and about the not faving and proposing thing, I *think* i have seen it, but I'm not too sure. It's in my memory- but it could be they forgot to fave... or maybe they simply didn't. Can't remember... I'm getting old (hey my bday is coming soon )

Unfortunately I have to agree with Misa. I too have been rather disappointed with the standard of wallpapers and art being submitted on MT.

Maybe I'm getting older but the pastel fashion really isn't to my taste. I like dramatic black and white, deep and smooth colours. I still can't do those kinds but I still love them.

What's with vectoring becoming fashionable, it's insulting to those of us who were doing it before and continue to try improve our skills regardless of what's currently in vogue.

Hey Regenbogen was that the Ranma wall on AP? I never viewed the actual scan that it came from but I know the animation quality of the series and was quite impressed with the wall.

I know that MT takes another approach with submitting artwork but I quite understand the stance that the AP administrators have. By pre-approving submitted walls and scan they keep the gallery quality to a very high standard and makes a quality/colour lover like me excited to browse throught the recent submissions. But how did I actually get onto this subject?

I don't think that there is a way of improving the submission, I think we just have to wait for the artists on summer hiatus to start submitting quality walls and maybe the current artisits submitting will get the hint and ramp up the quality - not quantity.

*inserts Evo's 2 cents*

Ok I just went to check the highlighted area to get my thoughts into gear and either it was because I not long ago woke up and my mind isnt in focus yet but I scrolled down looking at the new submissions and then ended up at the popular one O_o wtf I missed a section? When I was scrolling down I remembered seeing an artsy piece that is black and white and thinking "well that will becomea highlight" but thought it was still a new submission.

When I scrolled back up I realised that I was looking at the Highlighted area and was not impressed. The reason I passed it over was because there was a few walls in there I thought would not make highlighted (mostly because it would be something that I could easily make and I dont believe my work in highlight standard yet)

So I checked out that certain wall and I wasnt going to reveal which one it was but I then looked at the reason why it was highlighted and then I was shocked.

"Old school high quality planet/star wallpaper, with the all-too-popular vectoring technique thrown in. With the huge planet, some nice stars, and a romantic atmosphere, this wallpaper is one to remember"

That highlight reason alone doesnt impress me. "with the all-too-popular vectoring technique" wouldnt a person setting for a highlight be looking for something original than the same techinques used? I mean I only looked at it in thumbnail view cause I was not impressed to actually look at it in full view. Basically its plain...very plain like a vector with a stock photo and some stars stuck in the background with some shine on the Earth. Now the person could have vectored the earth themselves they could have done the worlds most amazing job but the point was it doesnt grab you enough to go and have a look at the full view and go "wow that is amazing" I thought the point of highlights was for walls like that.

The quality of the walls are going down but I dont know about the quality of it because to tell you the truth every single one is starting to look the same so I cant be bothered looked at them.

Now I will prob get yelled at by people if they ever drop by here for this one but I certainly think its the mods and advanced members who have a problem with quality. A highlighted wall doesnt become a highlight on its own, it must be nominated and then approved. But the thing is that they are becoming improved. Now if scan quality is off why would you say "yes that is a highlight" or if its like the same job that a Photoshop noob could pull off go "wow worlds best stuff highlight." People are not being thorough with thier choices.

Sorry to be the annoying one who brings up the past but I would like to direct you to UA's most frickin amazing effort wall our W.A.R. collab. We had quite a few mods and elite members comment on the wall saying it was the "wow amazing" but yet we did not recieve a highlight from it. If we resubmitted it now I can definatley say that it would be up on that highlight page. Now were the mods afraid to stand out on thier own at that time because we were still in the midst of the trendwhore sparkly walls or was it more fun to say yep great in a comment but break our spirits for the fun of it by thinking that we actually stood a chance at the highlight page.

Now on my side personally I was convinced that it would make a highlight, I have never felt so proud on the amount of effort, time and misa's computer crashing size psd file we had all put into it. But to see todays standards and then look at our own work I tend to feel cheated out of that highlight.

*insert Evo's 2 cents Part 2*

Just like in the normal world people go through phases. Back in MT2 it was the ZOMG! Sparkly Girls. MT3 its vector/vexal art. They are moving away from the sparklys for the highlights and now making them the more pastel artist walls. Mind you I find the trendwhore walls more appealing. Maybe I just havent updated with the times and decided to like the artistic ones. I like to see colour and vibrance in a wall not some dull brown shades of autum/I am regressing to the old days and want to remember what it was like to see stuff in black and white walls. But everyone has thier own likings and this gen of wallpapers just isnt doing it for me.

There was people in the past who submitted walls like this and didnt get a look in and now its everywhere. But thats the changing times for you.

*insert Evo's closing statement*

Overall the point I was trying to make was the yes the walls that are making highlights these days I say 70-80% of them really don't deserve it. It is all a personal liking race and if you dont have a mod/elite member in your back pocket then your magnificant work most likley wont recieve that highlight. If you try to do something out of the norm then once again same effect.

And the way to fix it, give the mods/elites more art taste and better eyes for details. There is no way to do that so the problem will continue and nothing will be solved.

merged: 05-05-2006 ~ 09:14am
PS. sorry if the post sounds bitchy at all but subjects like this tend to bring the grrr out of me (nothing personal against anyone who has recieved highlights in here cause you guys know you deserve it)

Quote by k1rubut i'm not agree about the quality getting lower...
the quality are not getting lower, maybe they just too lazy to make a unusual wallie?

That's a pretty interesting point brought up. Perhaps the quality hasn't really gone down. I suppose it could be right- I'm seeing more and more vectors lately (hence higher quality than most scans extracted), and nothing is ever original anymore. Interesting. I never really thought about it in that respect

Quote by Regenbogen

Quote by kuroimisaI've been sorely disappointed with the recent submissions. Not to be mean or anything like that, 80% of what's coming through is just... crap.
The top submissions usually had around half or so of them being highlighted submissions, but I'm not seeing that lately except for some artists who have been highlighted continually and are good artists nonetheless.

I don't really understand what you mean here, but I guess that's the fault of my English. What I am thinking about the highlights... At the beginning I thought yes, the highlighted wallpapers really are the best ones. Now I find myself more and more often trying to understand why this or that gets an highlight and others don't. Like two of the Arete entries. Especially one of them I didn't really like... yet now it's an "highlight".
I am understanding that I have my own taste of what looks good... sometimes my taste is shared by others, sometimes it is not. But the highlights here are no ultimate choice of quality anymore to me.

Well, the original text I wrote was pointing to the section on the frontpage just above the member index that displays the most "popular" work less than 1 week old (top submissions). There are 6 slots, and these are dedicated to the wallpapers that have gotten the most faves out of the whole past week's Minitokyo submissions. I remember when Mt3 first came, around half of them were highlighted submissions. People were actually favouring higher quality work (probably because of front page exposure) and that popular artwork section was actually hidden.

Then it returned (and hence it's above the member index today) and last time I checked I think 2/4 or less were highlighted submissions...? I can't remember anymore... but the whole trendwhore cute girl thing has attacked that section even more than before. It's probably just a coincidence... or maybe it is a trend. I don't know.

In reply to what you replied (haha what a sentence!) it's inevitable really that the highlights are and continue to be of a selection process. There's only so much you can highlight (especially if it's on weeks when there are many good submissions, or even on weeks when there are very few good submissions)- just dig the recent submissions gallery That's what I've been doing lately (and I never really used to). There are just many submissions that are very good, but seem to dim away as soon as they leave the front page as a recently submitted item.

Quote by Regenbogen If you mean "excitement" now as a huge thrill of "WOW... I cannot believe something like this is existing on this planet"... then no, I do not experience it. But Minitokyo is simply no Art forum... it's a place where people come together who share their interest in Japan or most especially Anime. I think to expect great artists here... would be too much to ask for.
I am also quite sure that you are less excited since your own wallpapers are really good, Misa. Maybe in the past you still had more to explore... whereas now there is nothing new... less exciting. But I still very often look at walls and I think "How do I do that?"... I guess you've learned these things already...

Well, I guess in the excitement part it could mean "this is amazing" or it could also mean "this had better get recognition" or "I'm surprised this person did this". Either way, the excitement as died down for me since I joined. Perhaps it is because many possible types of wallpapers can be made, and many of these have been explored and presented here. It could be what you suggested- it's something I've seen myself... but I've got a loooong way to go before I can believe to see myself as someone who's really good. There have been a few instances where I've made something and say to myself "oh yeah!" - but more often it's lack of appreciation (it gets overlooked and dims, or I get stupid comments like "your colours are so pale" when they aren't or "thanks wat a nice pic" when it's not *just* a pic)- and more than often these things make me think- "maybe this is, afterall, a picture. And that's nothing to be proud of."

Quote by RegenbogenI have no real answer to that question... maybe they never were interested in art and now they can't see the difference? I actually think they just come here with a very different interest. They like Anime and want to somehow make something on their own and even get lots of comments for it. They don't come here with the idea of making something really original... They don't see making wallpapers as something to spend hours with... and maybe they don't even believe that some people really spend weeks on someting... It's just to get some fun here... so how can anybody dare to spoil the fun by deleting items of the gallery? They don't take it as "serious" as some of us... that's the impression I have because I can't believe that they have no taste at all... *lol*...

I'd have to agree there. I have a feeling some people just make wallpapers for the sake of "making wallpapers". It's like some people do vectors because they "want to make a vector" like they "want to make a wallpaper"- and any wallpaper will do. In a way it's some kind of mechanical process maybe... possibly because of lack of interest in art (I have no idea where this sentence is leading me so I'll put a full stop here). Some people might even want to earn credits and see what happens. Maybe people might suddenly hope that when they get 500002672063 credits the amount might appear... lol! Or they might want to increase their artistic level to match their participation level... my oh my... there is no answer to this, but the possibilities!

Quote by RegenbogenI am also thinking do I want to make such wings and stars and flowers with a huge moon? Or shall I try to interprete "trendwhore" in my own way? Yes I feel a bit lost... I hope I will finish it someday...

Slow and steady We'll all be waiting Lol jk jk I'd be very interested to see what you come up with. It'd probably be much original than mine

*claps madly*
People read my monster post! Hurrah!
*wanders off now*

Oh cool... something to discuss... I should actually work... but... Ok, let's start!

Quote by kuroimisaI've been sorely disappointed with the recent submissions. Not to be mean or anything like that, 80% of what's coming through is just... crap.
The top submissions usually had around half or so of them being highlighted submissions, but I'm not seeing that lately except for some artists who have been highlighted continually and are good artists nonetheless.

I don't really understand what you mean here, but I guess that's the fault of my English. What I am thinking about the highlights... At the beginning I thought yes, the highlighted wallpapers really are the best ones. Now I find myself more and more often trying to understand why this or that gets an highlight and others don't. Like two of the Arete entries. Especially one of them I didn't really like... yet now it's an "highlight".
I am understanding that I have my own taste of what looks good... sometimes my taste is shared by others, sometimes it is not. But the highlights here are no ultimate choice of quality anymore to me.

Quote by kuroimisaIs the quality getting lower?
To me, I'm pretty upset because it does seem so to me. I don't get excited over anything. I see a thumbnail that looks interesting... download it... and it's just the same ordinary stuff.
Anyone have any views on this issue? AND
Why do you think this is happening if you agree with me?

Hmm I sometimes do get excited about wallpapers. Like recently I found one on Animepaper that used a scan and I compared original scan and wallpaper and the wallpaper actually didn't create its own interpretation of the scan but the person who made it used some great skills on simply making the original art looking a lot better. And I still wonder how he did that. And yeah there are some other people here, whose wallpapers I like to look at! If you mean "excitement" now as a huge thrill of "WOW... I cannot believe something like this is existing on this planet"... then no, I do not experience it. But Minitokyo is simply no Art forum... it's a place where people come together who share their interest in Japan or most especially Anime. I think to expect great artists here... would be too much to ask for.
I am also quite sure that you are less excited since your own wallpapers are really good, Misa. Maybe in the past you still had more to explore... whereas now there is nothing new... less exciting. But I still very often look at walls and I think "How do I do that?"... I guess you've learned these things already...

Quote by kuroimisaCould it just simply be that people don't realise that what they are doing is highly unoriginal or low in quality- or do you think that the audience (the public of Minitokyo) can't actually tell the difference between quality and low quality- hence artists become lazy and just scrape through with a lower standard than usual?

Oh very difficult! I ask myself that very often at the Sandbox. Some people there really love their work and have no understanding why their submission might have been deleted. And very often it is so obvious... apart from the whole thing looking like being put together in 10 minutes... the quality of the scans is bad, looks like screenshots or they simply place their scan on a photo and think that's just so goooood... how can it ever be deleted?
I have no real answer to that question... maybe they never were interested in art and now they can't see the difference? I actually think they just come here with a very different interest. They like Anime and want to somehow make something on their own and even get lots of comments for it. They don't come here with the idea of making something really original... They don't see making wallpapers as something to spend hours with... and maybe they don't even believe that some people really spend weeks on someting... It's just to get some fun here... so how can anybody dare to spoil the fun by deleting items of the gallery? They don't take it as "serious" as some of us... that's the impression I have because I can't believe that they have no taste at all... *lol*...

Quote by kuroimisaWhat are some ways to fix up this problem? (if you believe it is a problem)

Fixing the problem? Forget it... That's like trying to make people understand how precious and beautiful literature is. You cannot expect to fix the problem, then u would have to ban all the people who have low quality submissions. And again this is no meeting place of artists. You cannot come here expecting something like this... I would simply try to be happy about any good submission that can be found... about the people that share your interests... etc. That's why there are groups after all... so people of the same interests come together. I recently took a look at the gallery of the "Simple-ism" group... and there were actually some I liked and the quality in general seems to be a lot better than average of MT.
And I think that's what we should try here too, at MT... that's why the idea of picking a submission of the UA members is something really good in my point of view. Let's have our own highlights here... and work together on being original, different and simply... awesome... *lol* (Are you motivated now? )

I just understood that the highlights are not the ultimate choice for me... they are the choice of the people who highlight them... and they are in a higher position at MT than me. If I was a mod... the highlights would be different. I hope I don't sound arrogant... but everybody simply has his or her own taste. Like Picasso... wow he became such a famous artist, right? So if you show a painting around people who know Picasso would not really dare to say "oh that's crap" but if you told them and said it was made by XY I am pretty sure many would not like it at all. You can always argue about taste and you will never find a "solution"... I hope this doesn't go away too far from the original topic. I actually don't know anymore what I wanted to write about... *sigh*

Oh well yes... I just think there is no solution to this problem. You would have to start your own website where you accept only these people with enough quality in your point of view. I am pretty sure then there would be a high quality but not too many people. And hmm... it would be limited down to your personal taste. Which simply isn't what a forum like Minitokyo stands for.

Quote by kuroimisaThe previous trendwhores at least had some sort of quality to them... but these days all I see is a mass attack on Goto-P scans with another variation new and improved set of wings (which mind you don't even have details on them or good extraction), or super blurred/ medianed scans which seem to be "in trend" when they are actually crappy quality.

I was looking at some trendwhores recently. And there were some I really thought "Oooohhhh how can I do that?"... Some do develop their skills pretty much... even though in general they lack originality... But their skills are sometimes quite developped...

About my trendwhore project... last 3 days I am not really progressing. This has more reasons... The main reason probably is that I hate the scan... *lol* And that I have difficulties to make it look good... and so far I am still busy with the character... no idea yet of the background.

I am also thinking do I want to make such wings and stars and flowers with a huge moon? Or shall I try to interprete "trendwhore" in my own way? Yes I feel a bit lost... I hope I will finish it someday...

Quote by kuroimisaPS: Don't forget the link of a selected gallery item thingy. Hopefully we'll set the deadline for this at the end of May.

I haven't forgotten... But I do take it serious so I can only do it when I got time to sit at the computer for some while looking through galleries. And my next two weekends I will be at university from morning to evening... but end of may is fine!

Congratulations to anyone who managed to read the whole thing. These were just thoughts that I had when I read Kuroimisa's comments. They have no structure nor are they well thought through... *lol* Just what comes out of my head. Guess that was a bit too much though...
Gomenasai....
and back to work... ( I am an expert in procrastinating..)

hum... misa-san...
actually, i have the same thought about this~
and i say : I agree with you.

but i'm not agree about the quality getting lower...
the quality are not getting lower, maybe they just too lazy to make a unusual wallie?

well, kinda hard for me to tell what i think, bad english...

This is a random post I decided to write up.
You may read this as the topic of the week we'll use our entire soul to debate about.

THIS WEEK'S TOPIC: TOP SUBMISSIONS, RECENT SUBMISSIONS, TRENDWHORE WALLPAPERS

Your job is to read through my mass of... writing and respond. You may disagree, vehemently want to kill me and strongly entirely reject my perspective, stay neutral, agree, strongly agree with me to the point you have already bought me a ring and will plan to propose to me, or just write your own point of view

I've been sorely disappointed with the recent submissions. Not to be mean or anything like that, 80% of what's coming through is just... crap.
The top submissions usually had around half or so of them being highlighted submissions, but I'm not seeing that lately except for some artists who have been highlighted continually and are good artists nonetheless.

Is the quality getting lower?
To me, I'm pretty upset because it does seem so to me. I don't get excited over anything. I see a thumbnail that looks interesting... download it... and it's just the same ordinary stuff.
Anyone have any views on this issue? AND
Why do you think this is happening if you agree with me?

Could it just simply be that people don't realise that what they are doing is highly unoriginal or low in quality- or do you think that the audience (the public of Minitokyo) can't actually tell the difference between quality and low quality- hence artists become lazy and just scrape through with a lower standard than usual?

What are some ways to fix up this problem? (if you believe it is a problem)

I'm pretty busy tonight and for tomorrow so I'm going to run off. I'll most likely reply in a day or two or on the weekend. It's just something that's really bugging me- and I'm not too happy about it. I feel as though something is really lacking in the galleries. The previous trendwhores at least had some sort of quality to them... but these days all I see is a mass attack on Goto-P scans with another variation new and improved set of wings (which mind you don't even have details on them or good extraction), or super blurred/ medianed scans which seem to be "in trend" when they are actually crappy quality.

Present your views; thanks

PS: Don't forget the link of a selected gallery item thingy. Hopefully we'll set the deadline for this at the end of May.
Ja ne cupcakes <3

I just got a 1gb thumb drive from my sister cause she got her 40gb external hdd. Ive been going crazy thinking on what I can put on it to take to work hehehehe

Finally back on the faassstt connection, and I've run out of USB space *sobs* no! I must get a bigger USB(s) i've only got two 256mb=512mb need more space for leeching. *sniff* So much more I can d/l *sniff* and I just found artbooks and OST's *sniff* and more manga I've never read.

I love manga communities, of course I love pictures to (MT, AP), and after all what is manga but pictures telling stories.

Well there is nothing left to do, but come back tomorrow