Quote by Shinsengumi89
"There are no atheists in foxholes" this part of the quote was made by
religous people saying that well you know so, murrow said, that well there not
inthere because foxholes arent a good idea
Oh, I see. I understand now.
That is a good argument though.
Quote by Shinsengumi89Well i
consider it a positive one, because in genral your less likely to find an
athiest fighting, then a religous person.
It's likely there are more religious people in foxholes than atheists, but I
don't know of any statistics nor do I care. I'd think an organized group of
people who think they'll live forever if they die fighting would be a bit more
likely to fight in wars, but there could actually be more atheists.
Quote by ProgramZEROWow that must be
tough! If I were you or if I lived there, I WOULD LEAVE ASAP! Anyways, you gotta
stand strong!
Till now, I've managed it pretty well but I'm starting to lose my patience with
what I see/hear everyday.
I wouldn't leave Greece for such a reason though
Quote by alexjohnc3Nighteyes and
snowhite, I noticed you both mentioned that it was somewhat "hard" to
be atheistic in Greece, what do you mean?
The vast majority in Greece are Orthodox Christians. And most of them believe it
as the absolute religion [we are the only nation in Europe that the Church is
not divided from the state...]. I've already received a "You are
blind" from my cousin and an "Aren't you ashamed of yourself?"
from a friend of mine.
My parents don't know a thing of course and as is the case here, I'd like it to
remain that way. My mother would freak out...
The Church here is in truth more powerful than the state mainly due to their
wealth. I won't start about how they acquired it cause it's another story... As
is the situation in Greece, we can say as a matter of fact that the small
villages are ruled by priests.
Recently the state passed a law that all ID cards issued from that point on
would be in latin characters and we could choose if we want our religion written
on it. Yes, that's right.......till 2002 religion was one of the basic info on
an ID card. When the law passed, the Archbishop here nearly raised a riot. They
started collecting signatures in order for the law not to pass.
An example of their power was several years ago at the prefecture elections the
main contestants for Attica were 2, 1 from each of the 2 great political parties
in Greece. 1 party are claimed to be socialists but in truth they are more
right-wingers than socialists. The other is a pure right-wing party. The 3rd
contestant in terms of percentages belonged to an extremely religious
"far" right-wing party [they want to drive all foreigners away etc]. I
don't remember the exact percentages but during the gallup-poll they were
something like 50% for the first, 30% for the second, 5% for the third and 15%
for the rest.
Just 2 days before the elections, the Archbishop of Greece urged Athenians to
vote for the third contestant because, as he said, they were represting
Christianity.
The final results were:
40,10% for the first
26,70% for the second
13,60% for the third [the religious party] and
19,60% for the rest
You can draw your own conclusions
Wow that must be tough! If I were you or if I lived there,
I WOULD LEAVE ASAP! Anyways, you gotta stand strong!
In our Country ( USA) the Christians want us to make Christianty the official
Religon( even though thats against our constitution). And being an athiest is
also considered strange,Esspecially in the south. Ive been called a sinner so
many times, all because i think gays should have rights and that because i am an
athiest, though New Jersey isn't that bad because were liberal here.
turgon >o< u're soooo right.
for ex. from time to time I talk with mum & say to her that mum I'm not very
fond of christianism & I'd prefer not to have any religion at all or sth.
And she looks at me like I'm an alien or sth, saying "what are you saying,
you're too young to make such a decision ect"
except from that to see how great is the priests power in greece, before 2-3
weeks? the da-vinci code movie was out. It was to come in the local cinemas,
& suddenly all priests & the believers said that that movie was satanic
& it's about lies & it insults the chruch ect. At first I though there's
no way that the movie won't come in my town. After a day, the mayor gives out an
announcement saying: The da-vinci code movie isn't going to be in any of the
cinemas in town cause it insults the church.
And now here's the question. Is that actually a legal thing to do? To stop ppl
from watching a film, even if there are weird conceptions in it? At first this
is anti-democratic:x
Furthermore Greece was the center of christianism in the medieval times.
Byzantium was sth like a former Batican & with lots of power. Also priests
rly helped Greeks during the salvation ~1453-1821~ from Turks.So it's like most
of ppl here in Greece especially older but younger too idolise priests.
Quote by alexjohnc3Nighteyes and
snowhite, I noticed you both mentioned that it was somewhat "hard" to
be atheistic in Greece, what do you mean?
The vast majority in Greece are Orthodox Christians. And most of them believe it
as the absolute religion [we are the only nation in Europe that the Church is
not divided from the state...]. I've already received a "You are
blind" from my cousin and an "Aren't you ashamed of yourself?"
from a friend of mine.
My parents don't know a thing of course and as is the case here, I'd like it to
remain that way. My mother would freak out...
The Church here is in truth more powerful than the state mainly due to their
wealth. I won't start about how they acquired it cause it's another story... As
is the situation in Greece, we can say as a matter of fact that the small
villages are ruled by priests.
Recently the state passed a law that all ID cards issued from that point on
would be in latin characters and we could choose if we want our religion written
on it. Yes, that's right.......till 2002 religion was one of the basic info on
an ID card. When the law passed, the Archbishop here nearly raised a riot. They
started collecting signatures in order for the law not to pass.
An example of their power was several years ago at the prefecture elections the
main contestants for Attica were 2, 1 from each of the 2 great political parties
in Greece. 1 party are claimed to be socialists but in truth they are more
right-wingers than socialists. The other is a pure right-wing party. The 3rd
contestant in terms of percentages belonged to an extremely religious
"far" right-wing party [they want to drive all foreigners away etc]. I
don't remember the exact percentages but during the gallup-poll they were
something like 50% for the first, 30% for the second, 5% for the third and 15%
for the rest.
Just 2 days before the elections, the Archbishop of Greece urged Athenians to
vote for the third contestant because, as he said, they were represting
Christianity.
The final results were:
40,10% for the first
26,70% for the second
13,60% for the third [the religious party] and
19,60% for the rest
heh... the answer was really soon. I can only say they refuse to
understand.
Quote: Again you expect the authors
of the bible to be stupid enough to do what the author of Quran do; provide the
so-called 'scientific revalations knowledge ahead time' to show that this book
is from God.
Remember the humorous story between God and Moses, trying to accomodate to
someone's demand......an atheist's demand, by the username
Devildude.
and you ask me to try with the genesis theory, oh my........
Of course, I am not the only one, know that well.
Quoting me in this case is not useful. I don't even demand much, only slight
implications of the book to have at least to say "Oh our Lord created the
universe far and wide, so wide it was unreacheable even by the eons to past
by{added this so he could have a little more credibility}" or "In his
glory, he blazed a sun on the sky{where humans could see}, a few trillion
others{where we could not see}, and many more to come and go as time shall
pass{explosions, supernovas, etc.}" or even "In the beginning, God
created everything in order{you know, the several days where he created
everything}, including the many lands above the sky(likely given explanation of
planets near to earth), those that will be regarded as heaven in ages soon to
come and go{until we got telescope}, and soon to be surpassed with man's advance
to embrace greater knowledge{explain the comeabout of science into everyday
life}"
If it wasn't as vague as it should, seriously, I would have stopped asking, it
is because everything is vague and fable like that makes everything so
unbelievable.
Also, Evolution did not really focus on Ape > Man, we came from the common
ancestor, but are not entirely related. Oh, and tell me one thing why humans are
not animals? When we share everything the same about animals anyway?
Oh, and Apes are a type of beasts, beasts with brains and sentience, Dogs
however are not. Do not compare between non-sentient animals with those like
Dolphins and Chimps. And yes, if you believe it, we all have animal instinct
inside us, without which, we would not have been the dominant race as we are
today.
who is interested in proving the creationists theory?
Seriously, I cannot think of something that could.
Here is todays argument lolz.
Quote: Thus.....evolution is tested
without God in the picture, to see such matter is possible. My discussion
showed.....no it is not. Especially when there are so much barriers/problems
opposing to evolution.
then, that is bias, simply, if you put god into a test, (an unknown and
unspecified variable of all possibilities fulfilled including all things divided
by zero, then yeah, 1000 percent and above possible.
The problem with Evolution theory is that it is man-tested, based on things we
can see touch feel, have evidence that can be held, tested, etc. Putting
something you can't see into the test, what are you thinking? And through such,
we prove something and disprove something in time.
The only thing I can see wrong with supporting this theory cause of a few flaws
with it is that I must be a perfectionist. And we all know nothing man made or
man itself is perfect. I seriously don't want to reject the possibilities are
endless, but adding a variable that makes certain that possibilities are endless
is really kinda weird in my opinion.
If the possibilities are endless, I rather say it was something like chance, or
perhaps a mutation or something else.
Or am I the only one who seems to vain that I could not be bothered to think the
same as you? "When you reject God out of the picture, you also reject the
possible limitless, impossibility and unfathomable power and dimension that is
in work."
I don't think science and logics and physics are supposed to add in something of
such incalculable power am I correct? You don't add magic into the discussion of
science, (Not god, only something other).
You don't add something infinite possibility to a certain equation that can be
calculated within human understanding.
If God was all that powerful and all that great, he can make squares from
circles, and count the corners, or make a triangle with only 2 sides,
mathemathcal impossibilities, adding him into the equation or science of finding
out the grand theory would simply be a harassment to its original purpose.
Quote:
to think many of the creationist are refusing to find the truth.
I have proven to you the many flaws of evolution theory, didn't I? You admitted
it so that there is a loopholes to this theory.
if that is the case, by right the next move would be to find their own theory
that is provable by science and (excluding an unknown and all powerful factor
that renders all equations and physics into nothing matters) physics.
NOT disproving a theory that excludes God and forcibly forcing the God into the
theory that excludes it. To me, that is like denying the whole thing
alltogether, and the fact that most creationists (my vanity if you so please to
stress) or christians actually already established the "wanted" ideals
for a truth, means it is already settled no? The truth is : Intelligent Design
exists.
Although there are some that I can agree with, namely progressive creationism
which seems a bit more logical than the usual standard sunday school edition.
I am reading it up for now, might come back and ask some questions later.
Quote:
Like to Sarteck, why don't you suggests ways for Christians to prove their
GENESIS theory. You never really asked me to disprove ice age theory, did
you?
One of the first things is that if you can prove humans once lived 900 years old
would be nice. A good start since that is so highly doubtable.
One of the reasons as well as since the earth was supposedly young and that
means the environment could not have become such rapid changes till today that
we are only allowed a max 100.
I sort of did not ask you, but I have reasons to believe in the Ice Age, all
giant lizards have extinct, and the new generations of mammals arised from there
on. That is where human ancestors came in, not before and together with
dinos.
and seriously, I lol at the thought you compared man to dogs.
Which you are comparing the fact we share the same ideals as those worthless
beasts.
Funny don't you think?
Dogs drooling compared to the absolute intelligent step to humans and semi-ape
creatures discovering fire! OMG! <--- nothing intended.
You do realize that creatures with a bigger cranium capacity also think more
complex than dogs and chickens right? How else do you think we became the
superior and dominant race of this planet? (was arguing about Pavlov's Ideas of
Learning)
Quote by NighteyesHiya all, just
applied for the group. I'm glad there is a place I can actually be an atheist.
Declaring your atheism in Greece is kind of a pain
Quote: Also as a side note, what do
you people think about Global Warming?
The Mediterranean sea will turn into a tropical sea in several years. Scientists
found some species of fish that usually lived south of Rhodes near the Ikarian
sea. What more should I say?
Something can come out of the Treaty of Kyoto but unless the US [single largest
polluter of the world] and many other countries sign the treaty and abide by its
rules the tempreature rise will not be our only concern...
LOLZ:* hiya thar ^^
thnx for joinin the group
as for the global warming? I don't actually have any special opinion 'bout that
I just know that's bad, & ppl shouldn't do all the crap they do to the
environment... Recyclin, use of local transportations ect would be a solution,
actually not a solution but a way to stop the prob currently. As for the
consequences of global warming looots... skin cancer, endangered species,
floads, death of fish, birds, lots of species become extinct, temperature of the
planet becomes higher & higher, melting of the ice ~north-south pole~ &
lots of other>o<
As for the governments they just do nothing... ok they say recycling is good but
what can we do when in big cities each & every citizen uses car, factories
pollute water, air, soil, & ppl keep cutting all the trees to create super
environmental friendly buildings >o<
Hiya all, just applied for the group. I'm glad there is a place I can actually
be an atheist. Declaring your atheism in Greece is kind of a pain
Quote: Also as a side note, what do
you people think about Global Warming?
The Mediterranean sea will turn into a tropical sea in several years. Scientists
found some species of fish that usually lived south of Rhodes near the Ikarian
sea. What more should I say?
Something can come out of the Treaty of Kyoto but unless the US [single largest
polluter of the world] and many other countries sign the treaty and abide by its
rules the tempreature rise will not be our only concern...
Quote by snowhiteI don't know if I can
help cause I don't even have any personal contact with the ppl from my
friendlist & I guess they aren't even interested in these things:x most of
them just like walling & only that
but I'll try>o<
I don't know if I can help cause I don't even have any personal contact with the
ppl from my friendlist & I guess they aren't even interested in these
things:x most of them just like walling & only that
but I'll try>o<
OKAY LISTEN UP! I have a request for all other members of the Group.
It would be most appriciated if everyone in the group could help look for new
members, wether you just ask someone on your friendslist or someone you see on
the boards who you think would be intrested, it would be most helpful!
This of course isn't required but it would be appricated!
Quote by Devildudeactually most adults
can take care themselves, like me, but I suck at taking care of a group or
family.
That still doesn't make adults any more intelligent on average. Most idiots I've
encountered online are religious adults. Maybe they're just more arrogant, but
have relatively the same intellect as many unintelligent children.
BTW, when I say intelligent, I'm referring to their ability to reason
objectively.
Hello Everyone, I would Say " Gods in His Heaven All Right with the World". But i'd be lying.
So i have two new threads out, one is about the Minimum
Wage another is about the Prision in Guantanomo Bay Cuba the U.S. Has.
Shinsengumi89
Oh, I see. I understand now.
That is a good argument though.
It's likely there are more religious people in foxholes than atheists, but I don't know of any statistics nor do I care. I'd think an organized group of people who think they'll live forever if they die fighting would be a bit more likely to fight in wars, but there could actually be more atheists.
Also I just looked this up quick: http://atheistfoxholes.org/
It's not an argument against foxholes. It's a statement that there are no atheists in foxholes that is wrong, considering there are.
I wanted to repost this statement, response please.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes.
James Morrow
So what do you think of the quote people?
Shinsen89
Till now, I've managed it pretty well but I'm starting to lose my patience with what I see/hear everyday.
I wouldn't leave Greece for such a reason though
Hello people i have new thread out in the Science and Religon Section, and i invite everyone to join. The threads name is
Religon: Impact on History, Good or Bad?
Shinsen89
Nice pic.
Spoiler:
Religion =
Wow that must be tough! If I were you or if I lived there, I WOULD LEAVE ASAP! Anyways, you gotta stand strong!
In our Country ( USA) the Christians want us to make Christianty the official Religon( even though thats against our constitution). And being an athiest is also considered strange,Esspecially in the south. Ive been called a sinner so many times, all because i think gays should have rights and that because i am an athiest, though New Jersey isn't that bad because were liberal here.
merged: 06-17-2006 ~ 12:03am
Nice button Devildude!
turgon >o< u're soooo right.
for ex. from time to time I talk with mum & say to her that mum I'm not very fond of christianism & I'd prefer not to have any religion at all or sth. And she looks at me like I'm an alien or sth, saying "what are you saying, you're too young to make such a decision ect"
except from that to see how great is the priests power in greece, before 2-3 weeks? the da-vinci code movie was out. It was to come in the local cinemas, & suddenly all priests & the believers said that that movie was satanic & it's about lies & it insults the chruch ect. At first I though there's no way that the movie won't come in my town. After a day, the mayor gives out an announcement saying: The da-vinci code movie isn't going to be in any of the cinemas in town cause it insults the church.
And now here's the question. Is that actually a legal thing to do? To stop ppl from watching a film, even if there are weird conceptions in it? At first this is anti-democratic:x
Furthermore Greece was the center of christianism in the medieval times. Byzantium was sth like a former Batican & with lots of power. Also priests rly helped Greeks during the salvation ~1453-1821~ from Turks.So it's like most of ppl here in Greece especially older but younger too idolise priests.
the situation is actually rly bad here>o<
This is a new button lol
The vast majority in Greece are Orthodox Christians. And most of them believe it as the absolute religion [we are the only nation in Europe that the Church is not divided from the state...]. I've already received a "You are blind" from my cousin and an "Aren't you ashamed of yourself?" from a friend of mine.
My parents don't know a thing of course and as is the case here, I'd like it to remain that way. My mother would freak out...
The Church here is in truth more powerful than the state mainly due to their wealth. I won't start about how they acquired it cause it's another story... As is the situation in Greece, we can say as a matter of fact that the small villages are ruled by priests.
Recently the state passed a law that all ID cards issued from that point on would be in latin characters and we could choose if we want our religion written on it. Yes, that's right.......till 2002 religion was one of the basic info on an ID card. When the law passed, the Archbishop here nearly raised a riot. They started collecting signatures in order for the law not to pass.
An example of their power was several years ago at the prefecture elections the main contestants for Attica were 2, 1 from each of the 2 great political parties in Greece. 1 party are claimed to be socialists but in truth they are more right-wingers than socialists. The other is a pure right-wing party. The 3rd contestant in terms of percentages belonged to an extremely religious "far" right-wing party [they want to drive all foreigners away etc]. I don't remember the exact percentages but during the gallup-poll they were something like 50% for the first, 30% for the second, 5% for the third and 15% for the rest.
Just 2 days before the elections, the Archbishop of Greece urged Athenians to vote for the third contestant because, as he said, they were represting Christianity.
The final results were:
40,10% for the first
26,70% for the second
13,60% for the third [the religious party] and
19,60% for the rest
You can draw your own conclusions
An unofficial welcome to Program-zero
heh... the answer was really soon. I can only say they refuse to understand.
and you ask me to try with the genesis theory, oh my........
Of course, I am not the only one, know that well.
Quoting me in this case is not useful. I don't even demand much, only slight implications of the book to have at least to say "Oh our Lord created the universe far and wide, so wide it was unreacheable even by the eons to past by{added this so he could have a little more credibility}" or "In his glory, he blazed a sun on the sky{where humans could see}, a few trillion others{where we could not see}, and many more to come and go as time shall pass{explosions, supernovas, etc.}" or even "In the beginning, God created everything in order{you know, the several days where he created everything}, including the many lands above the sky(likely given explanation of planets near to earth), those that will be regarded as heaven in ages soon to come and go{until we got telescope}, and soon to be surpassed with man's advance to embrace greater knowledge{explain the comeabout of science into everyday life}"
If it wasn't as vague as it should, seriously, I would have stopped asking, it is because everything is vague and fable like that makes everything so unbelievable.
Also, Evolution did not really focus on Ape > Man, we came from the common ancestor, but are not entirely related. Oh, and tell me one thing why humans are not animals? When we share everything the same about animals anyway?
Oh, and Apes are a type of beasts, beasts with brains and sentience, Dogs however are not. Do not compare between non-sentient animals with those like Dolphins and Chimps. And yes, if you believe it, we all have animal instinct inside us, without which, we would not have been the dominant race as we are today.
Yo, could I join this group? I'm a stone-cold Atheist here!
who is interested in proving the creationists theory?
Seriously, I cannot think of something that could.
Here is todays argument lolz.
then, that is bias, simply, if you put god into a test, (an unknown and unspecified variable of all possibilities fulfilled including all things divided by zero, then yeah, 1000 percent and above possible.
The problem with Evolution theory is that it is man-tested, based on things we can see touch feel, have evidence that can be held, tested, etc. Putting something you can't see into the test, what are you thinking? And through such, we prove something and disprove something in time.
The only thing I can see wrong with supporting this theory cause of a few flaws with it is that I must be a perfectionist. And we all know nothing man made or man itself is perfect. I seriously don't want to reject the possibilities are endless, but adding a variable that makes certain that possibilities are endless is really kinda weird in my opinion.
If the possibilities are endless, I rather say it was something like chance, or perhaps a mutation or something else.
Or am I the only one who seems to vain that I could not be bothered to think the same as you? "When you reject God out of the picture, you also reject the possible limitless, impossibility and unfathomable power and dimension that is in work."
I don't think science and logics and physics are supposed to add in something of such incalculable power am I correct? You don't add magic into the discussion of science, (Not god, only something other).
You don't add something infinite possibility to a certain equation that can be calculated within human understanding.
If God was all that powerful and all that great, he can make squares from circles, and count the corners, or make a triangle with only 2 sides, mathemathcal impossibilities, adding him into the equation or science of finding out the grand theory would simply be a harassment to its original purpose.
if that is the case, by right the next move would be to find their own theory that is provable by science and (excluding an unknown and all powerful factor that renders all equations and physics into nothing matters) physics.
NOT disproving a theory that excludes God and forcibly forcing the God into the theory that excludes it. To me, that is like denying the whole thing alltogether, and the fact that most creationists (my vanity if you so please to stress) or christians actually already established the "wanted" ideals for a truth, means it is already settled no? The truth is : Intelligent Design exists.
Although there are some that I can agree with, namely progressive creationism which seems a bit more logical than the usual standard sunday school edition.
I am reading it up for now, might come back and ask some questions later.
One of the first things is that if you can prove humans once lived 900 years old would be nice. A good start since that is so highly doubtable.
One of the reasons as well as since the earth was supposedly young and that means the environment could not have become such rapid changes till today that we are only allowed a max 100.
I sort of did not ask you, but I have reasons to believe in the Ice Age, all giant lizards have extinct, and the new generations of mammals arised from there on. That is where human ancestors came in, not before and together with dinos.
and seriously, I lol at the thought you compared man to dogs.
Which you are comparing the fact we share the same ideals as those worthless beasts.
Funny don't you think?
Dogs drooling compared to the absolute intelligent step to humans and semi-ape creatures discovering fire! OMG! <--- nothing intended.
You do realize that creatures with a bigger cranium capacity also think more complex than dogs and chickens right? How else do you think we became the superior and dominant race of this planet? (was arguing about Pavlov's Ideas of Learning)
Nighteyes and snowhite, I noticed you both mentioned that it was somewhat "hard" to be atheistic in Greece, what do you mean?
LOLZ:* hiya thar ^^
thnx for joinin the group
as for the global warming? I don't actually have any special opinion 'bout that I just know that's bad, & ppl shouldn't do all the crap they do to the environment... Recyclin, use of local transportations ect would be a solution, actually not a solution but a way to stop the prob currently. As for the consequences of global warming looots... skin cancer, endangered species, floads, death of fish, birds, lots of species become extinct, temperature of the planet becomes higher & higher, melting of the ice ~north-south pole~ & lots of other>o<
As for the governments they just do nothing... ok they say recycling is good but what can we do when in big cities each & every citizen uses car, factories pollute water, air, soil, & ppl keep cutting all the trees to create super environmental friendly buildings >o<
Hiya all, just applied for the group. I'm glad there is a place I can actually be an atheist. Declaring your atheism in Greece is kind of a pain
The Mediterranean sea will turn into a tropical sea in several years. Scientists found some species of fish that usually lived south of Rhodes near the Ikarian sea. What more should I say?
Something can come out of the Treaty of Kyoto but unless the US [single largest polluter of the world] and many other countries sign the treaty and abide by its rules the tempreature rise will not be our only concern...
Took you a while but you remembered me :P
Thank you snowhite!
I appricate it!
Shinsen89
Also as a side note, what do you people think about Global Warming?
I don't know if I can help cause I don't even have any personal contact with the ppl from my friendlist & I guess they aren't even interested in these things:x most of them just like walling & only that
but I'll try>o<
OKAY LISTEN UP! I have a request for all other members of the Group.
It would be most appriciated if everyone in the group could help look for new members, wether you just ask someone on your friendslist or someone you see on the boards who you think would be intrested, it would be most helpful!
This of course isn't required but it would be appricated!
Thanks,
Shinsengumi89 ( Group Mod)
That still doesn't make adults any more intelligent on average. Most idiots I've encountered online are religious adults. Maybe they're just more arrogant, but have relatively the same intellect as many unintelligent children.
BTW, when I say intelligent, I'm referring to their ability to reason objectively.